Hmm - a lesson from history ???
Let's take some other views:
The United Kingdom EC referendum of 1975, also known as the Common Market referendum and EEC membership referendum was a referendum held on 5 June 1975 in the United Kingdom to gauge support for the country's continued membership of the European Communities (EC), often known as the Common Market at the time, which it had entered in 1973 under the Conservative government of Edward Heath. Labour's manifesto for the October 1974 general election promised that the people would decide "through the ballot box" whether to remain in the EEC. The electorate expressed significant support for EEC membership, with 67% in favour on a 65% turnout. This was the first referendum held throughout the entire United Kingdom, and remained the only UK-wide referendum until the 2011 referendum on alternative voting.
The February 1974 general election yielded a Labour minority government, which then won a majority in the October 1974 general election. Labour pledged in its February 1974 manifesto to renegotiate the terms of British accession to the EEC, and then to consult the public on whether Britain should stay in the EEC on the new terms, if they were acceptable to the government.
The Labour Party had historically feared the consequences of EEC membership, such as the large differentials between the high price of food under the Common Agricultural Policy and the low prices prevalent in Commonwealth markets, as well as the loss of economic sovereignty and the freedom of governments to engage in socialist industrial policies, and party leaders stated their opinion that the Conservatives had negotiated unfavourable terms for Britain.
The EEC heads of government agreed to a deal in Dublin on 11 March 1975; Wilson declared, "I believe that our renegotiation objectives have been substantially though not completely achieved", and said that the government would recommend a vote in favour of continued membership. On 9 April, the House of Commons voted 396 to 170 to continue within the Common Market on the new terms. Along with these developments, the government drafted a Referendum Bill, to be moved in case of a successful renegotiation.
The referendum debate was an unusual time in British politics. During the campaign, the Labour Cabinet was split and its members campaigned on each side of the question, a rare breach of Cabinet collective responsibility. Most votes in the House of Commons in preparation for the referendum were only carried thanks to opposition support, and the Government faced several defeats on technical issues such as election counts. Finally, although the Government declared in advance that it would comply with to the result, the referendum itself was not legally binding upon the government.
A Quote ..
The blaming of the elderly is annoying me.
A friend has some fabulous insight into it.
"Perhaps these were the young idealistic people who voted to join an economic trading area called the EEC only to find it changing into a federalist, superstate and decided this is the wrong route for the UK."
Steve the Flasher
There is much being asked of why the 'Experts' were not listened too by those that didn’t want to do their research..- and generally dont do much research anyway! I reckon there might be about 1 million of them.- but that’s a guess. I'll call this group of people 'The Hacked Off' or THO's.
I put forward this theory as to why they didn’t listen to the experts.
These are examples….- don’t start a discussion on the individual ones.. Ive picked them because we all recall them.
The THO's were told by the experts we needed greener energy. So their energy prices went up to pay for it, wind farms were built, the THO watched people make a lot of money.
The THO were told only 15000 people would come from accession countries… They watched over 10 times that arrive.
The THO's were told by experts we needed immigration.. this suppressed the THO’s wages and THO watched people make a lot of money.
The THOs’s were told by experts that it wasn’t mass immigration causing problems but the THO’s knew it was from personal experience… And that they were being called bigots and racists or just plain stupid because they didn’t realise that immigration benefitted the economy by £xyz billions... the THO’s watched people make a lot of money as their wages didn’t improve and their services were stretched.
This sort of thing went on for a long time and on a lot of occasions.
Eventually the THO’s lost faith in listening to experts, as every time they did they found they were worse off, and the experts, and their sponsors etc, were usually better off…
So by the time of the EU referendum they had guessed they were going to be worse off again and the experts and their mates were going to be better off. (because the experts opinions had ‘form’ in this way) .. so the THO’s decided why listen to the experts?- They knew they were going to be worse off anyway- so what did they have to loose?
Even the politicos who claimed to represent them mostly showed they didn’t…
So it seemed obvious to them …Why not bring the whole lot of experts and their mates up short… And totally ignore them? Stop immigration by voting out. (or try to) This looks belligerent, ignorant, bigoted, and the THO’s look like they have been misled.. Perhaps it is and they have been, but also perhaps they have just had enough of feeling they are going to be worse off if they listen to Experts..?
Normally the THOs’ are spread out over the country and their influence is dissolved by being in constituencies.. This time that didn’t happen.. and 800,000 of them voted for the same one ‘candidate’ on the national ballot paper….. Perhaps this time they were heard. The experts and their sponsors and supporters are now feeling what its like when you are not listened too, your living standards are screwed over and you are insulted.. etc etc…
The ‘oppressed’ have risen up and kicked the bourgeoisie in the nuts..... and listen to the howling…. And the calls to change it so the ignorant and un-researched cannot do this!
As I say, this is a theory.. But I cannot find a different one that fits the facts.. And once you have excluded all the possibilities, what you are left with is most likely the reason.
Brendan O'Neill
So this is what democracy feels like. This is what a ballot-box revolt looks like. Yesterday the people asserted themselves. They made plain their dislike of the EU. And they did so against virtually the entire establishment. The leaders of capitalism, the vast majority of the political class, experts, academics, world leaders, global institutions, the liberal media and the celebrity set united to warn the little people, to hector and lecture them, about the dangers of rejecting the EU. And yet the little people did it anyway. They said No to the EU, and in the process revolted against a political and media establishment that thinks it knows better than us how Britain should be run. This was an uprising, a polite, quiet one, not only against Brussels but against the political class here at home, against those who rule.
Let us dwell for a moment on the failure of the establishment. It pumped an extraordinary amount of energy, money, time and intellectual resources into the campaign to keep Britain in the EU. It deployed the politics of fear, issuing dire warnings about a post-Brexit recession and a possible surge in racism and violence. It sent experts to explain to our tiny minds all the things that would happen if we made the wrong choice. It rallied big business, corporates, its global partners and allies, all of whom insisted that it is in Britain’s interests, and Europe’s interests, for the EU to stay intact. And yet it didn’t work. Even in the face of these fearful overtures from the powerful, a majority of people rejected the EU. The establishment can no longer connect with significant sections of society. The chasm between the elite and the people just went from huge to possibly unbridgeable.
And this isn’t only a problem for the governing party: the Tories. Yes, the divide in that party has been stark, personified in the clash between Cameron and Boris, and Cameron’s resignation this morning will no doubt intensify Tory fissures. But consider the extraordinary drubbing Labour has taken. Many of its strongholds in the north-east and the Midlands voted against the EU, flat-out refusing to do what Labour leaders implored them to. Labour’s estrangement from its voter base has become explicit. And consider the inability of expert cliques and media commentators — who play a key role in politicking in the 21st century — to win people over to Remain. From Yanis Varoufakis, who traipsed round the country with a band of pro-EU British leftists, to the scientific lobby, which pleaded with us to stay for the sake of scientific funding, to the educational establishment, with its statements about the importance of staying, they all failed. The establishment failed. It stands exposed as utterly disconnected, and morally impotent.
And yet just because the establishment failed, that doesn’t mean the demos have won. Not fully, anyway. We must stay vigilant. For there will now be a concerted effort to thwart our democratic statement, to weaken it by calling into question its legitimacy. This is already happening. Apparently the demos behaved rashly. We ‘voted emotionally rather than considering the facts’, says Labour MP Keith Vaz. We were in the grip of fear, say others. Or we were making a xenophobic statement, they claim, overlooking the irony of their pontificating about prejudice while suggesting that the 17.5million people who said No to the EU, this vast swathe of people, is a tabloid-poisoned blob given to disliking foreign people. Demagogues ‘injected poison into the nation’s bloodstream’, commentators are already saying, the implication being that we were brainwashed, made mad by evil men. We know not what we do. We’re children.
The efforts to rebrand this vote as a kneejerk thing, an emotional thing, a racist thing, are already underway. And others will no doubt argue that because the vote was very close, perhaps we shouldn’t take drastic measures; perhaps we should reform our ties with the EU rather than sever them. We must stand against all this, and insist that the people have spoken, and the people are sovereign, or ought to be. Indeed, that is fundamentally what the referendum was about: do you think Brussels or the parliament in London should be sovereign? The people voted for themselves. We must now deepen the argument for democracy. Breaking links with Brussels won’t remake Britain as a brilliantly democratic, engaged nation. Other institutions will need to be rethought, and public debate re-energised. But what a great starting point we have. If we can ditch something as huge as the EU, what else can we do to the end of enlivening the democratic sphere?
This is what is so exciting about this referendum result. Ignore all the politicos and observers saying ‘Britain is broken. We no longer recognise this country’ (now they know how the people who voted against the EU have felt for years). For this huge jolt in global politics, this brilliant people’s quake, this vote against the political and media and business classes, provides us with an opportunity to rethink public life. It opens up the political landscape. It allows us to wonder, and discuss, how that landscape might be reshaped. We can’t let this momentum slip away. The people asserted themselves, and we must continue doing so, to ensure that the democratic agitation unveiled by this referendum is harnessed and deepened and turned to the ends of creating a better, more open, more engaged era of politics.
Brendan O’Neill is editor of spiked.
"Keep hearing that 75% of 18-24 year olds voted Remain. It was 75% of the 36% who bothered to turn out."
and so....
and Corbyn4leader
A lot of people who voted Remain are asking "how did this happen?" If you're asking this question the answer is probably you.
Anyone who openly supported Brexit was shut-down and labeled racist or xenophobic instead of creating an open discussion.
You probably know 50 people who voted Leave but were scared to say it because you called them racist instead of listening to their concerns and opinions.
Here are are some good things about Brexit that should make everyone happy no matter what you voted for.
• We can finally outlaw zero-hour contracts
• We will be allowed to renationalise our insanely expensive private tendered rail system (as Corbyn has promised to do if he wins the next election, and I hope he does).
• We will all still be able to live, travel, work and move through the EU/EEA without needing a visa. (something Leave mislead people about).
• Within 24 hours of the UK voting to exit: Canada, the USA and Germany have all announced they want special, preferential trade deals with the UK as soon as possible.
• Germany threatened to punish us with a trade tariff if we left the EU and Stay mislead us all by saying we would have an EU trade tariff: The EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately.
• Our NHS, rail, education and other publicly owned enterprises won't be at risk of further privatisation from American corporations
• Tax-evasion by Apple, Google and Facebook is going to be made much, much more difficult.
• We will be able to rescue our local, small-scale farming industry. The EU forced us to give 90% of our agricultural subsidies to huge agri-corporations. As Oxfam said "the EU lavishes subsidies on the UK's wealthiest farmers and biggest landowners at the expense of millions of poorest farmers". The UK government campaigned to reform this horrible system. Now we can support and subsidise small, local farmers without needing permission from anyone else.
• Fisherman/women around the UK are rejoicing at the prospect of being freed of the ineptitude of EU fishing policies. When we joined the EU, Europe was totally self-sufficient when it came to fish. Now we have to import 60% of our fish from outside of Europe because of incredibly poor management of fishing in EU waters.
• We will no longer be supporting CAP (which was ruled illegal and immoral by the World Trade Organisation) which as Oxfam said "spreads poverty in the poorest nations on the planet"
• We will be allowed to import affordable, environmentally friendly equipment for renewable energy which the EU banned us from doing.
• In the UK we ban 1200 dangerous substances from use in cosmetics, had we stayed in the EU, TTIP would have forced us to reduce this number to allow American corporations to "compete fairly in the European market"
• After 2010, the Tories introduced some very though regulations on banking and finance to avoid another rescission. The EU along with the USA sought to strip these regulations. Now we can keep the bankers and the City of London in check.
• We will no longer be party to the incoming "Investor-State Dispute Settlements" treaty (ISDS), which all EU will be party to, will allow corporations to sue governments if their policies negatively affect their profits. So for example, if a government introduces an environmental policy that reduces a companies purse: a corporation whose only interest is profit will be able to sue a democratically elected government for protecting its people or environment from exploitation. We will no longer have this forced upon us.
• The EU forced us to give up our seat at the WTO and they were trying to make us give up our seat at the UN Security Council which we will now be able to keep.
• The UK is one of the most generous countries when it comes to foreign aid. The EU capped the amount of foreign aid we were allowed to give. Now we can be as generous as we wish.
For me the most exciting thing is we are now free to trade with the wider, outside world. There are exciting, emerging markets with amazing opportunities to be had that the UK was prevented from tapping into due to to the EU's "Common External
Tariff". Norway and Swizerland (two non-EU nations) have been benefiting immensely by the agility afforded to them by being able to enter into these markets without any barriers.
Now we are free of the Common External Tariff we are now free to trade and tender for huge infrastructure projects, selling our world-leading expertise, talent and knowledge with fast growing economies like India, Indonesia, Myanmar, China, Vietnam, South Africa and Malaysia just as South Korea, Japan, Norway and Swizerland have been doing for decades.
So next time you call someone racist for voting leave. Remember that leaving the EU has expanded our international-reach exponentially and we will become a true internationally trading nation, doing business with the most exciting, dynamic and diverse nations on the planet. If that makes someone "racist", then so be it.
Just a quick summary - I have views but they seem to be swamped in the emotional outbursts - I will wait until the initial rage is gone, and the regret for hasty action comes into play, and them the apologies for upsetting friends and loved ones, the promise not to do it again - a bit like domestic violence...... I have no problems with emotions and an emotional reaction - but then again that is how you get serial killers ...... I watch Criminal Minds
I will lift my non-alcoholic glass to no-on in particular today - I couldn't find anyone who has shown themselves in a good light - but tomorrow is another day and I was always an optimist
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